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They both use FPGA for their decoding. - Up to 32 bit - 768kHz. The only thing that I'd really like to see added here is an Aries Cerat. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Along with an integrated clock, changing this card allows switching between single-ended and balanced outputs. And now that my system is much more resolving, it's possible that the differences could be larger and my preferences could change. A Chord DAC converts to analog via Chord's "Pulse Array DAC" which is a discrete circuit, similar to the discrete circuit used in the MSB DACs (but not the same). Is it too hot to touch? Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers, A healthy approach to understanding measurements, After being asked for the 308th time, Merv lists top 5 headphones, $1000 to the first to design a headamp using discrete components with better measurements than Magni 3+, http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/chord-dave-29757/#post579518, (You must log in or sign up to reply here.). So this was headphones straight out of the DAVE? Also, it is worth noting I heard the v1 DAC 2X, not the v2. But then we have to apply the law of diminishing returns. Stay updated on Bloom Audio at their. What I do know is that the MSB brings an excellent level of performance by way of neutrality to a system that allows other parts of the system to do their thing its sort of the digital equivalent of a very (very) good cartridge. I have a PS Audio DSD ATM and it is also on the warm side which is good, but I'm thinking I need something more neutral due to my speakers being fairly warm and full bodied in their own right to take my system to the next level. I think is a good general rule of thumb, but there are some very transparent passive pre-amps out there. First let me preface my comments by stating that I have not heard a lot of high end DACs in my system. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. And the Jeff Rowland Aeris DAC with new PSU. Sources: Hiby R6, Fiio x3II, Fiio x5II DACs: Dave, Yggdrasil, Hugo, Hugo TT, U12. The modular nature of MSB products allows you to have the bits you want and leave out those you dont, The display is a bit basic but it does what it needs to and you can see it from the other side of the room, Detail and transparency are the main features, Allows a real insight into the makeup of a track, Brings a sense of timing being bang on the money, Detail isnt a result of the higher frequencies being artificially pushed, Both PSUs are not absolutely necessary but once you remove one you want to put the other back in. Putting price aside, what are your thoughts about the Hugo TT as an integrated DAC+amp? Hifi Pig is part of the Big Pig Media LLP group of companies. Fair enough if you know some of the posters here and their listening preferences. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. the Extreme has some special optimization for USB. I thought the DAVE was just as stunning with DSD as PCM. Its an interesting setup with everything from design through to milling the chassis to building the circuit boards being done in-house. digital 149728-117859 MSB select II vs all dacs ? Playing Gil Scott-Heron and Brian Jacksons Your Daddy Loves You from the Winter in America album gave me the same impression of a reach-out-and-touch soundscape with incredibly well-defined positions in the mix and a whole load of detail the over-driven sound of the electric piano at around a minute forty really stood out as being faithful to the recording; a case of high-fidelity highlighting a low-fidelity artefact? The biggest question about this device is, Yeah listened to the same HEk V2 and Chord Dave with. Thanks guys! - Roon Endpoint. Im outputting directly to the LAB12 (and later a Krell KST100) power amp and so a digital volume algorithm is used where the digital volume control is left at a relatively high output so as not to encounter loss at lower volume levels. How r they comparing to the MSB Select 2 and Trinity? Thank you for posting! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Lots of time it Yeah, you and me both- the look I got wasn't as funny as the one I got from the Sennheiser stand when I asked if they had any HD600 or HD650, instead of all those Momentums and so forth, but still. For the most part, I listened to the MSB through our LAB12 and Krell KST100 amps and TotalDAC D100 speakers. To each their own, but I think Chord sounds cold and artificial. This is a very odd one to describe but came to the fore on tracks like Pan Eros from World Of Drums and Percussion. You are using an out of date browser. Once you start playing a tune the DAC works out the sample rate and chooses the correct playback clock. In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. This kind of sound really appeals to me and was really excellent to experience on lots of tunes, but was especially evident on tracks from Rumours with every part of the mix being identifiable as unique. Thirdly, having suggested that the brightness issue may lay elsewhere, I will shortly post a suggested tweak directly to both HMS and DAVE - that I have found to increase the "weight", "solidity" and "analogueness" of the resulting sound. what Im saying is that comparing dacs also must take into account of all the interface advantages of each particular dac. The Hugo TT2 is intended to bridge the gap between the range topping DAVE and budget Qutest rack mounted offerings. https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-rothschild-70aab85/, Headphones and Personal Audio with Pitch Perfect Service. "OK, it would be. I know it is a standard talking point by some to suggest that Chord DACs aren't as good with DSD as PCM. I agree with what you are saying but "far too often" the Triangle Magellan Concerto 2< AQEverest< Vitus Audio SS-010 Mk2< AQDragon High Current< AQWELXLR< ChordQutestDAC w UpTone JS-2 & AQ Dragon Source < AQDiamond USB< InnuosPhoenix USBwAQ Dragon Source< AurenderN100H & AQ Dragon Source< NetGear GS105GESwitch w UpTone LPS1.2< Supra CAT8 Ethernet components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. dac at a reasonable price. More sharing . Founded in 2010 Whats Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system.. But of course, I love window shopping and perusing top tier systems including illustrious more familiar gear like Lampi, TD, MSB, Ares Cerat, Aqua. The Discrete DAC uses two of these modules per unit. Im sure it does have a flavour of its own, but from my standpoint, it sounds like a very neutral and transparent DAC. I think people buy what they like. However, there are two inputs for external PSUs and a little doodad/adapter that allows the use of one external PSU. I havent heard the Rockna. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296, Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio, Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream. this was how I originally decided to purchase the Select II as I was trying to hear another dac at shows that could do what I heard the Select II doing at a lower price. I like all this attention to detail and the MSB website suggests a company that is massively proud of its American heritage and of the products they make. Always use!! Anyway, the little bit of extra detail on the strings, the attack, and decay are all there to be heard and its a marvelous thing to listen to. Rori is definitely welcome. You are using an out of date browser. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. JavaScript is disabled. personal preference." There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. However, to get this level of separation and detail within the soundscape the DAC is clearly having a very important role to play. Mike, Scott has been absolutely wonderful in his support, despite my purchasing the Found-Music 2A3s used (from Art S.) He has visited once and is planning another visit after the trip your way. Look, says I theres obviously a fault with this unit as its lighting up, I can see it on the network and I can send tunes to it via the Stack streamer and Roon! We went through everything and I was getting ready to pack it up and send it back when I reached around the back of one of the PSUs and switched it on MUSIC!!! CHORD Dave could be the most expensive deeply design DAC in the world and if you find it not your taste there is the best off the shelf DACs like akm4499 in Topping D90 for 699$ that could be even better than Dave. Compared to some other similarly priced DACs ($10 - $15k MSRP) I prefer the Discrete with 2 Discrete PS. So take it for what it is. This all-American theme is continued in the companys PCB Shop where they use circuit boards produced for them in Silicon Valley, which are then made ready for the automated adding of the smaller components and hand-fitting bulkier components before washing and inspection. And differences at that level can be good. It may not display this or other websites correctly. But MSB Select 2 is regarded by many as the best thats why for something 1/10 of the price to compete in anyones eyes is quite an accomplishment. It's not just a matter of being polite, it's also about acknowledging that what we hear and what we prefer is uncertain and changes; that the comparisons were made at different points in time wherein my system had varying levels of resolution/ noise; the fact that making a change requires greater energy and usually more money than staying with what you have; and that sometimes the differences between components are not significant or actionable. Is this what passes for high end? prefer to keep our test results among ourselves. MSB Technology Discrete Modular DAC Page 2. The end users ears are the only ears that count. I actually like the simplicity of this and it is very intuitive to use when you get into setting up and menu diving, though diving is over-egging it a bit as the Discrete is a doddle to set upif you do it right, but more on that in a while. It is my name after all! I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. And this is where I had a problem with this DAC, though mostly the problem was of my own making. DLNA Protocol. Yeah, im thinking a post lock-down GTG is in order. One name that was thrown around by a few people I know is the Rockna Wavedream. We await Phase 2 where all DACs are assessed using upsampled data via your Lumin U1 to establish ranking and the preferred format through each. Its not bombarding you with information, but it is a notably more defined sound with regards to the spatial information and the way that elements sit in the mix a tad more solidity and more of a sense of the stereo image being wider and deeper and with instruments and sounds occupying a definite space of their own. Almost all gear I hear is pretty good and some are great but the most expensive ones are not universally the best to my ears. It is just as important as the DAC itself. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The USB module is completely electrically isolated and is again a standalone module capable of 32 bit#768kHz, MQA decoding and 8X DSD. Right now my favorite music player is from the same manufacturer of the Phasure NOS1a DAC: Stealth LPS running XXHighEnd software; again with the same caveat that I haven't heard a lot of the other highly regarded music players in my system. And thinking more about it, the differences at the time could have been small because the noise level in my system at the time of the comparison were relatively higher than they are now. JavaScript is disabled. It's UPDATE VIDEO THREE for the Chord Electronics DAVE DAC REVIEW I have spent a lot more time with the DAVE Dac, still using. It would be absolute suicide for an audio distributor to For such a high entry price I wouldn't take the gamble to go on some recommendation by a stranger whose tastes I don't know. Please specify coaxial S/PDiF or optical S/PDiF. Unfortunately not, I'm going the second hand route as I've done with most of my setup. T&A Dac8 (for DSD512) or Lampi Atlantic for any native rate DSD playback. Hope to try different formats on both DACs to see what works best in my system. This is a review, detailed measurements and listening tests of CHORD DAVE combination DAC and headphone amplifier. There is no dark magic involved. johndoe21ro So I saw the DAC lighting up and it looked fully functional, right down displaying the bit rate etc of the file playing, but no music. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Can't beat the form factor of it though, great for off a desk top. I agree with your statement. I also looked at the MSB Discrete DAC but everything thing was an extra cost option (USB, AES/EBU, power supply, etc.,) and expensive. Never use!! Talking of cool lets talk about this remote. Less experience with Dave on DSD, plus Rob claims to no longer decimate. Sent from my SM-G928V using Computer Audiophile mobile app. This is how MSB describe these modules: Its best to think of our DAC modules as a black box: the modules take the raw digital data in and output a continuous voltage. Unless they have the exact same components as the end user, it's impossible to tell that customer how component X will sound in their system. Focal Utopia ~ LCD i4 ~ ETHER FLOW open/C ~ LCD-2.2/XC ~ Nighthawk ~ K10 custom ~ JH Angie, Chord mscaler // Chord TT2 // Oppo PM-1 (Artisan silver headphone cable) // Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohm // WAVE Stream bnc cables // Kef LS50 Meta. So yes it's a question of being polite, but it's also about acknowledging the limitations inherent in making absolute pronouncements about differences between high performing components. has 20 hours on it. It matches Chord Dave and Mscaler on dynamics with slightly more bass slam. As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. Funny how Rob Watts drones on and on about noise modulation, and then we see his product performing like this.. now one might not exactly call this noise modulation, but it definitely something to avoid, especially given the price tag. Chord Dave Replacement. I say take what everyone post when a grain of salt, because an individual's preference may be different than yours. @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? I think my DAVE sounds great with everything. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? Fully agree that it could come down to personal preference @RoriHope you have arranged auditions. So I personally prefer to listen to different DACs just like I prefer to listen to analog as well as digital. let me know when it's on, I'll make my way down if I can. There's 340 pages packed with HiFi Reviews, Industry Interviews and much more. I don't want to waste hifi shops time too much knowing I'll be going second hand either. And what streamer are you using to feed the DAC? I have heard a lot of top DACs at shows or other systems but not in my own. and our ears are completely different. conversation. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. I haven't heard MSB or theDenafrips DAC. Sonically, it is akin to the old straight wire with gain only in the digital realm. I believe it comes down to You must log in or register to reply here. You could try some of the newer dacs that has gotten good reviews. In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. MSB DACs also use a processing chip to handle oversampling and digital filtering (not sure if this chip is an FPGA or other type processing chip, but it is a high speed digital processing chip). Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material (in part or in full) without express and written permission from this websites author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Roon Endpoint What ice cream do you prefer? - MQA decoding. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. a year ago I got the new Renderer V2 which was a step up over USB. I'm really anxious to hear more opinions about this DAC and noticed that DAVE hasn't got a thread of its own (only together with Mojo). I hope to also have an opportunity to listen to a T+A DAC8 (for DSD512) and a Chord Dave (DSD256) in my system soon (with HQPlayer). other dacs I have enjoyedin no particular order; I would not call this second tier; but I prefer what hear from my Select II to what Ive heard from these. The other thing I've learned about the Chord Dave is it can sound very different depending on the interconnect and/or power cord used. And if I had to guess (given I haven't heard both), I'd guess it outperforms the Tambaqui. And this level of detail the MSB Discrete brings to the listening experience was carried through everything I listened toand I listened to this DAC a lot, with it being the only thing I used to for a solid two weeks. state his/her experience and preferences. Thanks for the suggestion ecwl. They are all excellent DACs and at that level of performance, it's ultimately about system synergy, personal preferences and the limitations of our hearing. Then we have the Integrated Clock module and Im starting to get the whole modular approach to the design of the MSB DAC. The headamp is powerful but not involving. The Pro USB was developed to offer a multi part USB solution that features complete electrical isolation and all the performance of MSBs proprietary Pro ISL input. The sonic signature is detailed and yet easy to listen to, with the Discrete bringing a sense of the recordings scale (big or small) to the listening experience. Roon/Jriver 22 -> Ayre QX-5 Twenty -> Ayre AX-5 Twenty -> B&W N802D (Transparent Cables). Its weighty, it feels perfect, its not overly ostentatious and its perfect! I have personally not observed this - with either the DAVE or my Mojo. Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites, Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Stainless steel buttons arrayed around an elegant volume wheel to optimize performance and response. The evolution of the original irreverent and irrelevant and non-authoritative site for headphone measurements, i.e. Taiko Audio Extreme > Sablon Audio Reserva Elite USB2022/Sablon Audio Reserva Ethernet2020> Aqua Formula XHDV2 > Sablon Audio King Sablon Interconnects > LDR pre > PuLSar45 DC SE amp > Sablon Audio Reserva speaker cables (pigtailed) > Avantgarde Duo Omega( Duelund xover). Did I mention the remote is perfect? With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. Many of these were already in a shootout on Audiogon with the same requirements - has to sound stellar on 16/44.1 tracks: I agree that the DAVE plus Blu 2 is spectacular, but not in a "hi fi" sense. Up to 32 bit 768kHz I haven't yet come across one DAC that is best and will completely dominate other great DACs across all audio evaluation parameters. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense. Sign up for a new account in our community. Can it output a Low or High Voltage on a single pin in a bitstream? definitely up there with the best dacs in the world. The other stand out dacs that we like are the Btw, my MSB friend and I used the internal analog preamp for MSB and built-in digital preamp for DAVE.